I decided to post my comment on my blog (slightly edited) for your consideration. I didn't exactly respond to his question, because this is how I think things should be, not how they are. This is where my thinking is right now. Excuse the folksy style please; this is not a formal piece of writing, just some scratches on the wall…
Hey brother, here's a possibly off-the-wall comment, but I hope you won't consider it un-intelligent.
In your post you asked what we thought was the most important focus of the service in our home churches. Your own answer seems to be "the pulpit." Of course, in a "Bible church" or in any congregation which finds its roots in the evangelical (Protestant Reformation) faith, I would agree… to a point.
My home church is an Orthodox Christian congregation… Aghia Trias (Holy Trinity) Greek Orthodox church. Officially, the focus of our church is on worship, namely the Divine Liturgy. The pulpit in an Orthodox church normally does not take center stage. In my congregation it's starting to try, because our proistamenos (head pastor) is a former Baptist. His preaching, however, is so full of worldly and trendy "New Age" allusions, that when he preaches (actually just talks) I generally either pray or pray and read my Bible (which I never go anywhere without), so as to avoid hearing his "message." (God save us from his preaching as soon as possible, the sooner the better!)
Anyway, what I want to say is what I think of preaching in church, and also what I think the main focus of "church" should be.
I don't mind the Orthodox services at all. They're almost entirely sung a capella, and consist almost entirely of Bible texts strung together by the ancient fathers. That's why a non-Biblical sermon stands out so awkwardly. Anyway, I don't mind the long services. They keep filling you up with the Word of God, without human manipulation or interpretation. They leave it to the individual worshipper to take in and digest. That's the "temple service" for you.
But what I really think the prime focus should be in any congregation, even among the Orthodox Christians, is constant, consistent, intense scripture STUDY combined with prayer. This is what it is like in the Jewish synagogues, especially in the conservative, the Orthodox, and the Hasidic ones. The Jews really know the Word of God, at least in the Tanakh (Old Testament part), and the average synagogue-going Jewish male puts most Christian church-going men to shame. And they don't even know the identity of the Messiah!So, that's what I think should be the focus. And also, the men should study together (no women allowed), with male elders. And women should study together (no men allowed), with female elders. The usual Christian Bible study night, with men and women together, does not allow for real study to take place, because of female competition against males. It wears us down with wrong concerns. Women study for one set of reasons, and men for another. This was always the procedure of the ancient Church, used to be the way the Orthodox Christians were until the last 30 or 40 years (in America), and this is the way the Jews do it.
So there you have it.
I'm not saying the church should not do other things, but you asked about what the main focus should be. The church building (sanctuary) for liturgical (temple) worship. The parish halls for Bible study (every evening, not just on one or two evenings). The other parish facilities for poor relief and neighborhood outreach. This is for the church to do as a group.
What about evangelism? This should be the primary focus of the INDIVIDUAL Christian (working two by two, ideally), and NOT something the church does as a whole. You can have a revival or preaching crusade once or twice a year (or in the case of the Orthodox, four times, each correlating to our four yearly fasting periods), but most spiritual outreach is the responsibility of the people of a parish as individuals and as families. I don't believe that "church roundups" and expensive, flashy evangelism services do anything except build up the egos of the church "leaders" who put them on. Very few people get saved that way. Many do find real salvation in Jesus just by the lovingkindness of a Christian neighbor, friend or relative. That's how ancient Christianity spread. That's how Orthodoxy works. That's how the church should be today. Anyway, that's my take on a few things.
The Lord is coming back soon. Amen.
Thank you brother, for sharing this testimony...Amen...I look forward to seeing if Armen will reply to you. I don't see how he could find anything wrong with your description of any local church congregation.
ReplyDeleteYes, let each individual be convinced in their own heart to witness for Christ. May He return soon.
Grace and peace.
Romanós - Firstly, thank you for your response.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, (and while I remember), are there any available messages from your proistamenos that I could download and listen to?
I am very interested to hear of the practices in your worship, mainly because my father’s side of the family are Armenian Orthodox. Forgive my ignorance, but wouldn’t the Armenian and Greek churches be similar in practice?
I find it interesting that your worship consists of biblical passages, which I assume are types of metric psalms and paraphrases? Saturating our minds in the word of God, is vital. However, knowledge of the word of God can be a hindrance, especially if it preceeds a work of grace. By that I mean, if one accumulates a knowledge of what the Bible says, and never recognises what it means, then they’re in great danger. An example, as you gave, are the Jews. They have a great knowledge of the Old Testament, and yet they miss that all the prophesies relate to a Christ who, without doubt, lived almost two thousand years ago. The light which dawned upon Luther’s soul, is the light which all must receive before the Word of God becomes truly meaningful, that is, “The just shall live by faith”.
Now what is God’s prescribed way of getting this message across? Is it by the personal study of the scriptures? Surprisingly, no. God’s ordained method of reaching men and women with the message of grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, is by men preaching it, “How shall they hear without a preacher?”
As far as “revival or preaching crusades”, I’m not much into them. Mass evangelism is not revival. This is a crazy notion born in America. Revival is an evident moving of the Holy Spirit, whereby those who are already enlightened to know the truth, receive a surge of spiritual power (usually in answer to agonising, desperate prayer) which changes their lives. The fruit of all this power in the church, is that many come to know Christ, nightclubs shut, public houses close down, and a community is purged of its sin and begins to live for God.
Personal evangelism, as you suggest, is the most effective way of reaching people. If only the church would recognise it.
As for the separation of men and women for study, I’m not sure. I mean, I read in Acts 1 how the men and women were assembled together in the upper room. With women studying on their own, and men on their own, there is a real possiblity of difficulties and error. The biblical model, is one God ordained preacher, who reproves, rebukes, and exhorts the people through the preaching of the word of God (2Tim 4:2).
All Orthodox churches have the same worship style and content. Worship consists in setting the Word of God in the midst of you, and letting you speak the Word to God (in worship) and receiving the same Word back from Him (in teaching). Ideally, all Christians would worship together, using the Orthodox liturgy, as their temple worship, and meet together locally in their homes for daily prayer, fellowship and study. I wrote about this in my blog post “Not post-Christian, but post-church” (http://cost-of-discipleship.blogspot.com/2006/04/not-post-christian-but-post-church.html).
ReplyDeleteI understand what you mean by knowing the Word before you accept Christ can be dangerous, but I don’t know if I entirely agree. The case of the Jews with their unbelief in Jesus as Messiah is and has to be a “mystery”. But anyone, like myself, who was brought up “Christian” but then lost it, and came back to it by studying the Word of God, and THEN accepted the Lord (”got saved” at age 24) through studying and believing the Word, well, I suppose that’s a mystery too. Like I said, I know what you mean. There are people who study the Word as a book only, looking for ways to refute it. These are bound for Gehenna. But a typical unbeliever can read and study the Word, and the Lord can use that to prepare him for receiving salvation by faith.
I don’t believe that preaching is the main method God wants to use to edify the Church, altho it can be and in some cases must be. The passage you alluded to applies to getting the message across to those who are not saved yet, so that they can believe. As for those, once they have accepted Christ and are now members of the Church, hearing preaching will be of primary value at the beginning, as they grow in Christ, but gradually other methods kick in, culminating in personal and group study of the Word, close fellowship with a few brethren, and also practicing more and more what they have learned, because doing the Word further reinforces the message in one’s own life.
One other thing about “preaching.” In the churches themselves, that is, churches in the “Christian” countries, people have by and large gotten so accustomed to the idea of preaching as sitting for a hearing, that they rarely follow up on anything the preacher says. This is true of all churches I have experienced, including the Orthodox. The difference with the Orthodox, though, is that the people get their regular input from the Word of God not from Sunday sermons, but from daily prayer and bible study, to the extent they want it, some more, some less. In the “Christian” couintries, we all have the education and the means to purchase Bibles and “other books” to further our understanding of the Word and will of God. If we don’t use these blessings to edify ourselves and each other, is it likely we will make much use of the brief, once weekly sermon or talk given by a preacher at a service? Again, for me, the work of a preacher is to preach the Good News to the unsaved world, like the apostles did, and nothing but the Good News. When the preachers preach to the “saved” (let’s hope they’re saved!), they often no longer preach the Good News but rather promote the latest book or idea they’ve had or even worse things. Why can’t preachers just preach the Word? (I hope you do.) To see what I mean better, take a look at my blog post entitled, “A word of advice to preachers” (http://cost-of-discipleship.blogspot.com/2006/10/word-of-advice-to-preachers.html).
By the way, no, I have no “sermons” by Fr Paul, our proistamenos, because we do not record sermons electronically, and he is a memoriser, so he doesn’t write his sermons down.
We see eye to eye on mass evangelism, I think.
As for the separation of the sexes, this has come from my personal experience as well as from Jewish and Christian “tradition”. Though before God in the life of salvation, men and women are equal partners, women and men are still different, and I think much of what is wrong with the Church today has come from its surrender to feminism. The Word of God reveals the truth about men and women and their relationship to each other, and many other things about gender and sexuality. We should abide by these, but we don’t even abide by the smallest and easiest of these. How then can we tackle the bigger issues? In the book of Acts, men and women assembled together in the upper room. This is for worship and prayer and, yes, probably for study of the scriptures as well, but anyone who knows anything about HOW they assembled, will tell you that men stood with men, women with women, as it is in the synagogues of Israel and in the churches of the Greece, Russia and other Orthodox countires. This may seem a minor issue, but by ignoring it we reap the consequences. I believe God wants us to make the most of our time with Him and with each other in this earthly life. That’s why He has continued to speak to us in the Word about such “unimportant” matters as behaviour in worship and in the bedroom. God simply cares about every detail of our lives. Problem is, do we?
Anyway, I affirm your good testimony in what you wrote, and thank God for you, brother. Keep serving the Lord, and keep yourself uncontaminated by the world. Go with God.
Romanós - I must apologise, your comment got held in moderation, and I never realised until now.
ReplyDeleteHas the Orthadox Church got a prescribed statement of belief? Do they have a confession of faith, or something similar? Writings which build the base for what is practised and taught?
“But a typical unbeliever can read and study the Word, and the Lord can use that to prepare him for receiving salvation by faith.
Agreed. It is a shame that many turn to the Bible with preconceived notions, and try to twist it, but the word of God is “quick and powerful” (Heb 4:12)
“I don’t believe that preaching is the main method God wants to use to edify the Church, altho it can be and in some cases must be.”
Nothing can replace personal study and prayer. However, listening to God’s word preached and expounded is a God ordained method of keeping everyone ‘in check’, reminding us of our obligations (as the people of God), encouraging us to persue a life dedicated to Christ, etc.
There are many scriptures that allude to this as a necessity. Just read, the Pastoral Epistles to Timothy and Titus. For example, Titus 2:1 begins,
“But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine…” and Paul goes on to tell him what he should preach to Christian men, women (young and old), and Christian servants. After he finishes this, Paul ends by saying (2:15),
“These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
Paul then starts again in Titus 3:1,
“Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work…”
In 3:8 he says,
“This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works.”
So you can see the importance of preaching, and it’s centrality in worship. As a man speaks the word of God, he is promoting the glory of God by urging people to a more devout life to God. He is to remind them of all the truths of God’s word, expounding to them wonderful doctrines that help people to “grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ”.
Feminism has definately had an impact on churches. I mean, I have even wondered lately about women writing ‘teaching books’ and authoring blogs that seek to ‘teach’. I’m not saying that I’m flat out against it, but just that I’ve been wondering about it recently. God has an exalted place for women, but preaching to the world, and leading churches isn’t one of them. Whether or not we should segregate men and women in public worship, is another matter. The fact that the majority of missionaries are women these days, is a more worrying matter.
Yes, Armen, the Orthodox Church has a statement of belief, The Symbol of Nicaea. That’s it.
ReplyDeleteAltho I stand by what I wrote in my previous comments about the place of preaching, I do see your points and agree with you entirely in the way you understand the scripture texts you cited. I especially agree with your explanation “Nothing can replace personal study and prayer. However, listening to God’s word preached and expounded is a God ordained method of keeping everyone ‘in check’, reminding us of our obligations (as the people of God), encouraging us to persue a life dedicated to Christ, etc.” I especially agree with the “in check” part, as long as the preacher is himself “in check”, that is, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
What we see in America, tho, is preachers using the pulpit to expound and popularise ideas other than the Gospel. This has become so prevalent that it’s hard to find any church where the Word of God is consistently “heard and preached.” In my community, the preacher who tries to preach this way is being “re-assigned”. What we’re left with is a convert priest who clothes his personal philosophy in Bible verses. God help us!
My latest blog post is a sermon by Fr Gerasimos, the preacher who is being reassigned. His preaching is simple and to the point, as Orthodox preaching usually is, when a real Orthodox man of God is delivering it. Take a look!
Go with God, my brother, in peace.